Thank you for joining me your host Liz Clifton and my wonderful take34u Self Care Series: Creating Calm Confidence Guest Janet Finlay as we share selfcare secrets, top tips and stories of our experiences.

It's an absolute pleasure to support you with your own self-care journey as you take34u and enjoy our chat below:

Janet Finlay & Liz Clifton Interview

Janet Finlay
Is owner, trainer and coach at Canine Confidence. She's an ACE Instructor and TTouch Practitioner Level 3. She is also a certified member of the UK Association of Pet Dog Trainers (01046) and a qualified coach. She uses only respectful, kind, and effective methods - she will never scare or hurt your dog in the name of training - and she applies that philosophy to you as well. She believes that to address reactive behaviour effectively it is important to work on building confidence at both ends of the lead! With that in mind her training focuses on building engagement between you and your dog, so that they can more easily disengage with things out there that are scary.

Connect with her here:

Janet Finlay & Liz Clifton Interview Transcription:

Liz Clifton: Yeah. Wow, amazing, wonderful Janet Finlay.  

Janet Finlay: Hello Liz.  

Liz Clifton: Coach for Dog Guardians and Trainers  specializing in the human end of the lead. Welcome.  

Janet Finlay: Thank you for having me. It's so lovely to see you and everybody's. Hi everybody.  

Liz Clifton: Wooo amazing! Okay. So fast question for you. What does self-care mean to you  

Janet Finlay: Oh goodness. How long have you got? Okay So for me, self care is prioritizing yourself. So it's putting yourself first, which for me has been a hugely difficult. It's so hard to do that. because of course we're all taught that that's really selfish. And that's really kind of self-indulgent and we should be looking after everybody. And, I have supporter in me, so I'm quite a supporting person. but it's, so it, everybody else gets to come first as a natural sort of bent. So for me, self care is about prioritizing yourself and that, that might be, you know, the things that people often think about when they think about self care. Doing nice things for yourself, but it might just be giving yourself a break or being able to say, no. One of the biggest things of self-care that I did recently was to say no to something where I felt enormous pressure to do it.  

Janet Finlay: And I, it was so pressured that I actually said to somebody, I would prefer to go through the agony of the three months that I was committing to, of doing this thing. And knowing that that was going to take away from everything else in my personal life. I would rather go through that than actually have the conversation that said, no, I won't do it. because that felt so difficult for me. But it was a big act of self-care. So for me, it's, it's putting yourself first making sure that you're actually looked after. Because if you're not looked after you can't look after anybody else, that's the, the truth of it.  

Lz Clifton: Thank you for sharing. So deeply with your own experience as well.  

Janet Finlay: Yeah, well, it's, you know, it all is living out, isn't it, we're all learning about things as we're going through. And so what we experienced, we kind of, we get to kind of put out there and it's what, that's what moulds, how we feel and think about things. I think we, we, we have an idea and then we get challenged in that idea and we kind of face something that a source, something that, that ends up making us kind of go hang on a minute. It's not, I don't want it to be like that. And then we have to rethink everything. So yeah, that was quite a big thing was having to actually make a choice that was putting myself first, publicly. And being in a position where I was actually saying to people, no, I won't do this because I'm more important. And that was so hard.  

Janet Finlay: My mental welfare was more important than doing this thing like that everybody was pressuring me to do. And, actually as it turned out, they weren't pressuring me to do it. So as it turned out, and this is the other lesson that I learned from that, as it turned out, nobody was pressuring me to do it at all. I was feeling pressure to do it. I was creating pressure to do it. I was creating that in my head. And when I said this to people, they said, good on you. Good on you. That's what you should be doing. Yeah. Looking after yourself. Well done you and I'm kind of going, why would, why did I feel that was going to be so difficult. So yeah, I think, I think sometimes we just have to step out because our brain is telling us that everybody else is expecting this of us. You know, a lot of the time we creating those expectations. So that's another area of self-care, let go of the expectations, take the pressure off. Let go of attachment to whatever and just be able to be a little bit more, I think.  

Liz Clifton: Yeah. That's, that's beautiful. And it's so true a huge amount of the expectation, if not often, all of it is what we've created ourselves. Because all of these, little dramas and stresses go on inside us  and as soon, as you actually put it out there, back into the world, a lot of people, like you said, they're like oh no that's not what, I meant at all. I thought you wanted to do it. I was trying to support you. And you're like, oh.  

Janet Finlay: Exactly so other supporters are, they're saying, yeah, we'll help you with it. We think you're mad, but we'll help you with it. And you're there going, they want me to do it. So I've got to do it. And it's crazy. And when you actually stop and put yourself in that position of, you know, I'm important, I matter as much as everybody else. And I can only do the work that I do. If I'm looking after myself. And as soon as you do that, then everything kind of falls into slots into place, you know. And, and, and things do people do come back because if you, if you're actually willing to say, look, you know, this is what I get to do for myself. Other people will come back and say, yes, that's great that you're protesting yourself. And it also gives them permission to do it. So that's the other thing that's really important about it is, you know, the more we spend time kind of going, oh, I can't, because I've got so much to do.  Janet Finlay: And I've got to support all these people. That's also putting pressure on other people to act in the same way and not look after themselves either. So the more that we can do that actually is putting ourselves in a position where we are cherishing ourselves and looking after ourselves and loving ourselves. And that was a big thing for me, was self love oh no, no that's all a bit, you know, it's, again, very self-indulgent and things. We just we've gotta love everybody else. You can't love other people and they should love yourself. So that has been massive. And being willing, being able to kind of receive from other people is another part of self love, which has been massive for me, which just not having to do everything yourself. So not feeling that whole, you know, and I've got it. I've got it. It's all right.  

Janet Finlay: I'm fixing it and all that sort of stuff. Because sometimes I think we, we do those things in a way that is, we've got an idea that that is somehow looking after other people. But that is actually quite selfish. It's quite selfish to do that, to sort of be saying, no, no, no, no, you can't help me. Because if we are people who, and everybody, everybody loves helping everybody. My most people love to support other people that night. And what you're doing is say, no, you can't say no, no, no, no, I don't need you. I can't, you can't help me. You can't support me. You can't give to me, I won't receive it. That's actually far more selfish than saying I prioritize me and I also prioritize you. So yeah, it's been a lot of lessons around that because I think we sometimes have it completely, sort of the wrong way round that way. We kind of have this idea of what giving is about and generosity is about. And being there for other people is about. And actually what I've been exploring over the last, I've been doing a lot of leadership training over the last year and the thing that's come out of it again and again, and again is it starts with us. It starts with us where we are and looking after ourselves and when we're looking after ourselves, then everything else flows out from that. Rather than the other way around.  

Liz Clifton: Yeah. I love that. And I'm so proud of you because I know how much of a personal challenge that would have been for you just to say no, and then to say no, publicly as well. You know, it's another layer.  

Janet Finlay: Absolutely. Yeah. For other people to see that you weren't because you read it, don't you ask, I'm not good enough. I'm not strong enough. Other people are managing to juggle all these balls. So why can't I. And instead of seeing it as well, you don't know what other people's on other people's plates and you also don't know how much the struggle is for other people. So people might be managing it perfectly well, because they have different plates to you. But they may also be about at the point of collapse. And we don't know that because all we see is the external they put out. So it's to sort of compare yourself to everybody else is a crazy thing because you are not everybody else. So you know what you do your capacity and you also know what's important to you. So, you know, what are your priorities?  

Janet Finlay: And we get to be able to enjoy our priorities. You know, it is not selfish to want to spend time with the people we love. It's not selfish to want to be able to go out and enjoy nature. It's not selfish to be able to, to want to have time with family. Those things are not selfish, they're self care. And when we pull all those things at the back of the queue, then you know, we're doing nobody, any favors because we're burning out. And those people aren't getting what, you know, they're paying a price for that. And the people that we're working with and the people that were supposedly supporting, they are also paying a price because they're not getting our best self. So, so yeah, that's my kind of take on the whole thing now I think.  

Liz Clifton: I love it. Absolutely love it. And I  love also the fact that you were saying about, you know, opening yourself up and receiving support is beautiful and healing for you because it gives you that knowledge that people are that actually lifting you up as loud. But you're also opening up that pathway for other people to be able to support you and to give.  

Janet Finlay: Yeah. And that is so important. And I remember a coach of mine many years ago, so I've been doing kind of leadership, coaching and stuff for a long time. And, my, my original coach, I remember her talking about this and I said something about, oh no, well, I, you know, I don't want to ask them. And she and she basically challenged me on it. And she, she said, so what gives you the right to take that away from them? You know, why do you feel wishes other than choose the way it would why because that wouldn't be a very NLP thing to do, but she, she basically was saying, what, what is, you know, what makes you feel that it's okay for you. You want to give to other people, but you won't allow other people to give to you what makes you think that's okay?  Janet Finlay: And that was really massive for me. I just kind of went, whoa, okay, she's got a point that's not fair. And, yeah, the fairness of it is, is quite important, you know. To allow people that, because it's matters to people, we tend to think that people, when people offer to help, I don't know about you, but I do. I have all my life thought when everybody's offering to help. It's because they feel obliged it's because they feel that, you know, they have to do that. There's not, it's not because they actually want to support you. That's the, that's the mentality that I've had pretty much all my life. And so I've tried to avoid it because I didn't want to be a burden to people. I didn't want anybody to feel that they have to do this stuff for me. And what I'm realizing is actually people want to do it.  

Janet Finlay: People want to give to you. And we all have that. We all have people in our lives who are desperately wanting to support us. Who desperately want to give, to want to give something back, you know, for the stuff that you do. And it's this kind of, or even for stuff that other people have done for them. It's a pay it forward sometimes, you know, but fundamentally are generous and want to give. And when we say no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm all right thank you. I can look after myself. Then we, we take the opportunity away from people on it. And yeah, it's hard. It is hard to, to receive and accept, but you know, working on it.  

Liz Clifton: And you're so totally, worth it.  

Janet Finlay: Yeah, we all are. We all are. And, yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the message is, you know, we all matter, we all matter.  Janet Finlay: And, that is the message of self care and self love for me is we matter. You know, and everybody has, is in that place. So it's not that I matter and you matter, but the other person doesn't matter, it's we all matter. And, in the leadership work, and I know you've been doing similar parts and some of the same leadership stuff. But, one of the things that we do is we think about what's our vision for the world. And I took ages over this. So I went through months and months of so thinking I don't really have a vision for the world. I have the kind of stuff I want to do. I have stuff I want to do for myself. I don't really have a vision for the world. And it bugged me because people would go, oh, I want to do this and change lives for all these people.  

Janet Finlay: And I want to do this. And someone's very specific to particular areas and industries or groups of people. And some were very generic, you know, change the world and I was just going I don't really have a vision. What is my vision? And then it came to me, just a few months ago really. My vision is that people will know. They matter. That is my vision that people know they matter. And that might my interactions with the world, whether big or small will let them know they matter. So that might just be, I smile at somebody in the street instead of glaring at them. And I kind of, you know, or I, I, I'm just more, more kind of open with people that I just meet on everyday interactions, you know. Going down to the shop or whatever, you know, you have, and you just let people know, you make eye contact, you smile, you chat to give them a moment of your time.  

Janet Finlay: And that is a message that they matter in a small way, it's a small message, but it's still an important message. And then you obviously do it in big ways with other people that you get to spend more time with and give more to. But that is fundamentally what I want to spend my life doing is letting people know they matter in whatever area that I'm working in. And so I think that's a, that's a really important message and that's important message of self care as well. Because once you realize you matter, then you, you give them permission to look after yourself because why wouldn't you, if you matter. And it's the fact that when people don't do self care, when people put themselves at the bottom of the queue, bottom of the queue and the queue, bottom of the pile, whatever mixing metaphors, but when people do that, it's because fundamentally they don't believe they matter.  

Janet Finlay: They don't believe they're worthy of giving themselves time. They don't believe that they, have, you know, the right to do that. And I definitely didn't believe that. And, and, and I'm kind of coming to that thing of, yes, I am worthy of it and yes, I do matter. And therefore I'm gonna, you know, prioritize myself in whatever way that might, that looks like. And sometimes that looks like I'm going to take a day off and I'm just gonna do what I want to do. And sometimes it means I'm gonna take the time to spend with people who make me feel, excuse me, make me feel kind of lift uplifted. And sometimes it means I'm gonna clean the house because it's driving me nuts. And so self-care for me might be, you know, washing the kitchen floor, you know, or it's, it's not all or putting clean sheets on the bed.  

Janet Finlay: It's, it's not about having fancy stuff or going to the spa. Although I might be, I'm looking forward, I'm hoping to get a spa day next week. So looking forward to that. Yeah, I know,  but it's not just about those things. It's about all the stuff that gives you, let reminds you that actually you are worthy to live in good surroundings. And to have time with the people you care about and to give yourself time and to be fit and healthy and all of those things and you're worth it. and so that's, that for me is, is the crux of the matter. I think.  

Liz Clifton: Wow you are amazing.  

Janet Finlay: So are you Liz it's an amazing thing for you to be doing all these interviews and stuff, to get these little nuggets out to people.  

Liz Clifton: Yeah, and it's so important because that's part of my mission is for people to have the confidence to be themselves. And you only get to be yourself when you're confident that you are, worthy, that you do matter.   

Janet Finlay: Absolutely.  

Liz Clifton: So I love it.  And so, thinking back to your very fast memory of self care what's a first like experience that you could share with us?  

Janet Finlay: Whoa, that's a tough one. I have a terrible memory. I ought to tell you that I have a terrible memory. I can't remember what happened last week, let alone earliest memories. I really struggle with the earliest memories. I don't think that I really, I think I would have previously up until very, very recently. I would have seen self-care as being, when you take a bit of time to have a bath or, you know, bubble bath. Americans listening think, well, is this obsession that the Brits have with bubble baths. But anyway, it's something that we do, or I might have thought, you know, I'd spend some time with my dog when I was little, it would have been, go out and play with the dogs that would have been my, my kind of thing to do. But none of it was really getting to the heart of anything.  

Janet Finlay: It was just doing a little bit relaxation. And actually most of that, I would have been spending, thinking, what should I be doing instead. So a lot of the time, any self-care that I did, so holidays, everything like that and taking time out, I never took time off. I took time off, but I never actually can disconnected from my work. So even when I was on holiday, I would be thinking I would do this and I'd be checking emails and be doing that. Not obviously when I was little, but I don't really have much memory of when I was little, to be honest, that's a whole other story. So yeah, I suppose the it's really been in the last year of doing things that allowed me to be me. So I spent a long time being what I felt other people wanted me to be.  

Janet Finlay: And that included how I looked, how I dressed, what I, what I did, whether I dyed my hair or not, it was all that sort of stuff. And it was all about other people's expectations of me. And of course they were completely fabricated. Nobody had those expectations of me. And if I had just stood up to people and said, well, actually, no, I'm going to do this. They would have said go for it. You know, but I thought that they were saying no, because if somebody said to me, oh, I don't like this. I would interpret that as therefore, you shouldn't do it. So that was the sort of mindset that I was in. And so really it's just been in the last year. And I kind of feel like I've, well you knew me before, didn't you, you knew me earlier, before.  Janet Finlay: And I was actually looking at some old videos, of me and I was just very, I think it was just very tired. I was very tired and weary, weariness, I think is the word. That everything was an effort. Everything was very heavy. And what I found over the last year is giving myself time. So the real self-care has been being willing to actually take time out of my busy-ness to completely connect to who I want to be, who I am at my, at my core, and to take myself on. So that whole thing of working through doing all the leadership stuff, and it has been a journey of best part of best part of a year, nine months, at least, 10 months, 10 months and counting. And it's ongoing. It's not that it's finished. I mean, I'm not currently in a kind of official container to do it, but it doesn't finish.  

Janet Finlay: I'm still kind of going on. And I think it's that it's giving, having permission to just play and experiment and be who you want to be. So, you know, I, you, you, I mean, your, your, audience probably don't know, I have had about six colour changes my hair over the last year. I feel like, Tonks in Harry Potter, you know, hair change depending on mood, you know, it's that kind of thing. And I'm kind of settling on red. I kind of light red. But the point about it, it was just that it allowed me to explore it. Wasn't about it. It wasn't a big statement or anything. It was just, I want to explore how this feels and what's happened. I think in doing that, that, that for me has been a massive self-care thing because that's been about letting myself be expressive, letting myself, reflect what is inside, as opposed to what everybody I'm projecting, what I think other people want to see, which of course nobody does. And when I look back at it, I look back and think, yeah, of course they didn't because it was kind of dull. I was squashing my inner promoter completely, you know, and I'm kind of letting that out a little bit to play. But yeah, it's, I think early memories, I struggled with early memories. I, I have very few early memories, so, so we have to go with recent memories.  

Liz Clifton: Yeah. And I think in summary, like it fits because everything that you've been speaking about is leading up to now.   

Janet Finlay: Yeah.  

Liz Clifton: You know, this is where you're feeling this out. You're allowing yourself to be. So whilst you may have taken time for yourself in the past, it wasn't in the same way, as you're taking it now.  

Janet Finlay: Right.  Definitely not in the same way. And the, the taking yourself on thing is an ongoing thing. And it's all, it's all about digging deeper into your own, you know, that the, the layers of, I mean, there's obviously the older layers of things that block you. But there's also the layers of resilience and the layers of, of, what you've got inside that you can actually cope with things. So, I mean the last few months or so, so I started, so I was in this self-care journey and then over the last few months, it's just been, you know, my father had a heart attack. My sister had COVID, my partner's dog has cancer. It's all kind of like thing after thing, after thing, after thing that has just been really difficult. And I was kind of going this isn't fair, why the heck is this happening. And somebody presenced it, actually Christina Cass and she's my coach.  

Janet Finlay: And she said to me, you know what, you're sourcing this, this is you been focusing on self care. You've been focusing on self-love and this is the university. Okay. You think you've got that you think you've nailed it. Can you still nail it when your father has a heart attack. Can you still nail it when your sister has COVID and you're displaced. Because I live with my sister, so I can't actually, I couldn't go home for six weeks. Can you still nail it when you're supporting a partner whose very, very special dog is, is, is very sick. And that then sort of brings them not the layer where you go, okay. It's not just about sort of feeling good. And going, it's about being able to draw on all of that. Even when the world is shit, sorry, am I able to use words like that?  

Janet Finlay: But yeah, even when the world is throwing shit at you, you can still draw on those things. And that is an ongoing journey. And I'm not saying I'm there because you know, it threw me completely. But I get the message that it's about being able to keep on looking after yourself, even when things are going pear shaped. Because if you can only do it when you're feeling good, that isn't enough. It's because as soon as you stop feeling good, bang, everything goes wrong and then you feel worse. And it's a downward spiral, because you're not looking after yourself. So does self care work even when the world is throwing rubbish at you. And  yeah. So that was that, that was the next lesson. It's an ongoing process. It's an ongoing lesson. Yeah.  

Liz Clifton: Yeah. I love that. And it's, it's so true. Isn't it, you know, everything's going great and self-care is easier. It isn't always easy to take.  

Janet Finlay: Never easy but it is easier.  

Liz Clifton: And then when things come and they test you and the challenge is being able to still remember to take that moment for yourself as well.  

Janet Finlay: Yeah,  absolutely. And can you still do that under those circumstances. And, and so it's finding ways that you can do that. And what I'm doing now is just, working on, and it's not perfect in any way. I miss days and I try and I, and then I kind of beat myself up and oh I missed a day. But just trying to give myself just a moment of, you know, 15 minutes or so of time to ground myself each day. So this is about me and focusing on me and not being, not, it's not meditation, really. It's just being, being present with me and seeing what comes up in that space. And that's been really powerful just to do that, to having to give myself that space. And, I think sometimes, especially when things get busy, we, we tend to sort of let everything slip and, and things, things don't get done.  

Janet Finlay: So whatever those kind of practices, everybody will have things that will work for them. That might be a creative practice. It might be that you make something, it might be, you, you express yourself in writing. It might be that you do meditation. It might be whatever it is. But having that moment every day where you are connecting with the core of you, I think is really important that we can, that we keep on doing that. Even if things are crap and put in, particularly when things are crap. Mainly when things are crap. Because that is what brings you out of it. For sure.  

Liz Clifton: I love that. And it's so true. And it's just taking those moments of just stillness or expression. Or like you said, just dumping it all out of your minds in whatever way, just that deep connection with you that does, that's the constant. Because you were always you. Yeah, exactly. That connection piece. It can always be there in spite of everything around you.  And I think that's the core of most kind of practices, like even Buddhism Christianity, you know, any of that sort of spiritual things is it's being able to be you and positive and loving of to yourself and everyone else, no matter what else is happening. That, yeah, it's a constant ongoing, it's lifelong.  

Janet Finlay: Yeah. It's the ongoing battle to, to make sure that you actually, allow that. Just it's allowing it, isn't it because you it's, it's very easy to let everything else just pile in and then say that you didn't have time or that it wasn't possible on these sorts of things. And it's all choice. It's all choice. We all make choices every day about how we spend our time. We all have the same amount of time. Yes. We have things that we have to do, get to do. We have things that other people expect of us for the bottom line. We still make choices about it. You know, even if that choice is you're going to stay at work or not, that that is, that is your choice. So we all have choices. And we, there is nobody who doesn't have 15 minutes in a day that they can make a choice to give to themselves. Because that could be done while you're walking.  

Janet Finlay: It could be done when you're driving somewhere. It could be done in all sorts of places. Or it could just be that you get up 15 minutes early or something like that to have a bit of quiet. But I think that that is such an important, that's been so important for me in the last couple of months. Well my last couple of months, I suppose, because that's, when everything's been going pear shaped to actually do that. And, and I'm still working on it being a practice because I do miss days and I do find, then I think ah I haven't done it. That's why, that's why things are feeling a little bit kind of frazzled. And then I get back and just taking that moment, taking that time really makes a difference. So yeah, so important.  

Liz Clifton: Yeah. And just like me. I, yeah, I can feel a feel. You see you, you know, hear you and that's in those spaces where things happen and it feels like they're happening to us. And then it's finding that place in yourself to go, okay, this is all happening, right. Why? What's my lesson? What's going on?  

Janet Finlay: What is in it? What it, what is it teaching me? So it's happening for you. It's happening to you, as a, as growth. And it's not that we're responsible for things in the sense that we're to blame for things. It's that the choices we make lead to things and those that also brings with it opportunities. And so the things that we, if we're, if, if we're in a place where we're ready for something, then those opportunities will come. And I really believe that that. That things, that, that we get what we are ready for. And it may not feel like it at the time we may be feeling damn. I don't want that break. Now. I just want a bit of peace and quiet, leave me alone, get out of my face. It may be that you feel like that. And we want to say to the universe just get out of here, I just want to be left alone and get on with what I'm doing.  Janet Finlay: And I was enjoying myself, give me a few minutes to myself, compute a few minutes to enjoy this thing that I'm enjoying, but, you know, we get to enjoy it in spite of everything we get to enjoy within everything. And it's not that we don't, we're not derailed by stuff. And the more that that actually happens, the stronger we get to be and the stronger, our  knowledge of ourselves and, our commitment to ourselves becomes. And it's that commitment, which is the, the root of self-care. So it's taking us back to the beginning of what is the thing that is self-care is prioritizing ourselves. It's being committed to ourselves and to being, giving ourselves whatever it is we need as a first priority. And, and I think that that is, that is where we often, we often fall back because we, we, we balk at that. We think, oh, that sounds, that's still a little bit too self-indulgent to give ourselves what we need, but it isn't it.  

Janet Finlay: So it's the root of everything. And it's, it's where it's where personal growth happens. But it's also where I think really effective support of others comes from. Because I don't think you can actually really support other people unless you are in that place where you are supported. And in that place where that support is coming from yourself from other people, whatever. But until you're in that place where your are being met, how can you meet other people's needs? How can you support other people to meet their own needs? You know, and we end up then in a place of, well, I've got to fix it. I'm rescuing. I'm really trying to make things better for people. And I spent my entire life doing that. My entire life has been a rescue mission for everybody else. You know, I'm out there and I'm the fixer and I'm the problem solver. And I'm the person who's going to make things better for you, but it doesn't work like that. You know, because solutions are in, are set in, in each person has their own solutions inside. And what we can do is support other people to find their solutions. We can't go in and fix them. It's not, it's kind of rescue mission. We can just help them to find their solutions inside themselves. And if we haven't done that for ourselves, then we're going to struggle. So we ended up rescuing.  

Liz Clifton: It's beautiful and it's very much my own journey as well. So I completely resonate. And I think many people, especially, like he said, people who are supportive and, you know, it tends to be what we do.  

Janet Finlay: Oh yes.  

Liz Clifton: And then we ended up out and then kind of occasionally like resentful because we like, felt like can't do that.  

Janet Finlay: Absolutely. And I kind of flip flop between being quite controlling. So I have a controlling parts of me, but I also have this poor, very supportive part. And, and yes, that resentment, when I get to that burn burning out point, I would get the resentful moment and then I'd go into control around these people, get them out of my face. I don't want people going bother me. People are demanding things of me. And of course, if people aren't demanding anything, they're just there being people. And being caring and loving and supporting, and even people giving you love, felt pressure. So I, I was, I mean, being a few times in the leadership program where somebody has said something to me. And I have read it, I have heard it as a demand pressure and what it has actually been as been a statement of support.  

Janet Finlay: But because I was in that space of the, world's trying to ask things of me, that's what I heard. And I think that is very common that we, we hear things that are not actually that person's intention at all. And people offer us support and love. And we hear that as, they want something of me. They're demanding something of me that demanding to let me let, let them support me. It's a crazy thing. But yeah, I do think I do. I do feel that that's really, important that the, letting other people in. And if we wanting to support other people, not, not trying to fix things for everybody. But actually starting off with ourselves and then just being there for people. So that they can start supporting them as they find their way through it. Because I think that just being there and being there openly with people. So that you're opening yourself up and being vulnerable with people you're giving of your real self, rather than of the self that you've put out there. That this is the bit of me that you get, and this is the help a bit of me.  

Janet Finlay: And this is a very competent bit of me in the bit that can fix everything. And you just sort of open yourself up and say, you know what I don't know if I can help you. I don't know if I can support, but I can be here as a support because I love you. I can, I can do that. I don't know whether it's gonna make a difference. But I'm not, you're not in there to be the hero that goes in and makes the difference. You just be there for a person on a human level. And, and I think that's where, where, where real support comes from. You know, when people are just prepared to sit in the room with you. Rather than that, they feel that they've got to make it all better, but it's taken me many, many years to work that one or two to come through to that. And I still kind of find myself trying to fix things by often. but yeah, so it's a journey. The whole thing is a journey. Isn't it. We're both on it. We're all on it. Whether we know it or not.  

Liz Clifton: That's amazing. I'm so grateful for everything that you shared.  

Janet Finlay: You're very  welcome. It's been lovely to chat to you.  

Liz Clifton: Aww thank you.  And if you, if people want to kind of get in touch, do you want to give me a link or is there a website?  

Janet Finlay: I do have a website. It's a bit out of date at the moment. It's one of the things on my list to do, and it's not been prioritised, but, it's And that's where you find me also find me, at Janet Finlay Canine  Confidence on Facebook. And yeah, and I do more and more leadership stuff in there for dog trainers. So that's kind of where I'm heading. I think. Yeah. I'd love to connect with anybody. Who's found it interesting and it's resonating with, so do drop me a line.  

Liz Clifton: Amazing. Thank you so much, you are super.  

Janet Finlay: Thank you, thank you for having me. It's been really lovely to sort of stop and actually reflect on some of this stuff. So thank you.  

Liz Clifton: You are doing amazing.